Spencer and Susan discuss her career sewing and quilting. From department store alterations early in her career to the long success of Hyderhangout, Susan shares her insights into how to run a successful quilt business.
They discuss how to build a career around a love of sewing and how to position yourself as a professional. Susan also discusses how important it is to approach your business with professionalism and be prepared to be accountable for your decisions. She also shares where she looks for inspiration to grow her business.
- There are many careers you can have in sewing, but it’s important to find one that fits your lifestyle.
- Be a business owner first and a quilter second.
- Look for inspiration for your business everywhere.
- Find a niche for your business.
- “I’m a business owner, first, a quilter second, which is anybody, any small business, and you know, the people open an embroidery, shop, a painting, shop a garden shop, and they have to, if they’re gonna be successful jump over from, ‘Hey, it’s a hobby’ to, ‘Hey, it’s a business’ and business decisions are different than what you would make if it was just a hobby.”
- “I think the other thing that I have learned trying to think about, well, there’s certain ways to do things, but there’s probably a better way in listening to everybody you could possibly listen to in the industry, in other quilt shops, in customers, employees, spouses, all of that. You have to listen to everybody else and take all the ideas, but the buck stops here.”
- “Using all the information that’s out there and the big community that’s out there to get ideas and not becoming so competitive with the quilt shop down the street or in, in the next county over as your competition… you have to get your niche, your own niche, because you can’t compete with everybody in the world.”
Susan Hyder brings a high level of commitment to her business and her art. When she made her first quilt at 12 with her grandmother, she decided it wasn’t perfect enough and my seams didn’t match. She got up in the middle of the night, cut it all up in a million pieces and threw it away. Susan applies the same high standards to Hyderhangout in Cleveland, Tennessee.
[00:00:00] Spencer: Hi everyone and welcome. We’ve got Susan Hyder here from Hyderhangout in Cleveland, Tennessee. How are you doing?
[00:00:06] Susan: I’m doing wonderful. Weather’s wonderful and I hope you’re doing good over there.
[00:00:11] Spencer: Yeah, we’re doing awesome. We’re over here in Utah. So, you know, also getting a little bit warmer, but you know, kind of nice to have those summer months coming up.
[00:00:19] Well, Susan, I think we just kind of want to get into it as far as talking a little bit about you and your shop, you know, how we got here. So I know that kind of, some of the origins were maybe an eBay shop in 2007-ish. Tell us about you know, how you got here, having Hyderhangouts.
[00:00:35] Susan: Well, 2007-ish, I had eBay sales a little bit before that, but 2007, I actually had a whole bunch of fabric that I bought from a store that went out of business and I put it on eBay. 2008, I quit working as a nurse. Yay! I was a burnout nurse, so, you know, I didn’t wanna go back to work and I’m, you know, what’s happened over the last few 20 years, 15 years is I’m glad.
[00:01:10] And then 2008, I actually opened a business in my basement. I had one of them, big, huge lighted, you know, five foot by eight foot lighted signs and I had hours put on it but people still were afraid to come in because they were afraid they were gonna interrupt. We have a small farm, so they were afraid they were gonna interrupt the small farm.
[00:01:33] But I sat in the store that we set up in my basement those hours and I had a little bit of sales, but about October of 2009, I decided, well, we’re gonna go somewhere else and I just kind of fell into a place downtown Cleveland and it was an experience cuz we went from November of 2009 to November of 2010 and we had one of those landlords and we’ll just leave it at that… We won’t say the names…
[00:02:08] Spencer: Sure. I totally get it.
[00:02:09] Susan: I had a few times I went into my business and there was no electricity or no water. It was interesting. So when it came time for the lease to be renewed, we prayed about it and said, “well, we gotta find somewhere,” and I found this place that I’m at now and I actually got here about an hour before somebody else was gonna give a deposit. I gave a deposit and then over the weekend, I called all my friends, said we’re moving down the street. I wish I had a video of it because it would’ve been really neat because people were just pushing carts down the street, throwing stuff in their cars, driving down and it’s a 3000 square foot building and we went from a 600 square foot to 3000.
[00:02:54] So we put up curtains and stuff, and then we slowly built shelves and built walls and expanded and expanded. And then about a year ago, we expanded all the way to the back door. So now we have two entrances and that’s how I got to 2022, but a lot of growth in between.
[00:03:13] I also did a now defunct website and I can’t even remember the name of it but they ended up… it was such a bad company. They ended up with a lot of lawsuits and stuff against them and they were, I’m not even gonna name it. I just thought of it, but I’m not gonna name it, but they were not what they promised. They kept going up on their price, like monthly. And I don’t even remember how I found you guys. It was not at market, but it was something maybe emailed or something because I didn’t meet you guys until St. Louis market, like face to face, but in 2009, I went with you guys. I’m number 438 and you guys got over 10,000 customers. So when I call in and they ask me my number, I go, “oh, it’s 438.” And they go, “oh, you’ve been here longer than me.”
[00:04:11] Spencer: Oh yeah. Yeah, you’re an original in the Like Sew system and we love and appreciate that. So, tell us a little bit more, I guess, you know, looks like you’ve gone through a lot in trying to start Hyderhangout, right, through eCommerce, different locations, and some pretty crazy growth. Tell us where the passion for quilting comes from. Like where, where did that begin? How did you even say, “yeah. I have a passion for quilting and selling quilt supplies and in engaging with customers in that way”?
[00:04:37] Susan: Oh boy. So you wanna know my whole life story…
[00:04:40] Spencer: Just a little bit about your passion for quilting.
[00:04:42] Susan: Well, I was six years old. I started hand sewing and by the time I was 10, I had a Barbie doll that had 500 hand sew outfits.
[00:04:50] Spencer: Okay. So it really is a life passion.
[00:04:52] Susan: Yes, and then when I was 12, I was somewhat of a geek. Actually I think I was a really bad geek when I was in high school. I mean, I was in the Latin club and, you know, honor society president.
[00:05:03] But my grandmother from Costa Rica, step-grandmother, taught me how to make a quilt when I was 12. And sad thing is we made the top and the next day we were gonna get up and quilt it. But for me the fabric, which is somewhat fluid, wasn’t perfect enough and my seams didn’t match. I got up in the middle of the night, cut it all up in a million pieces and threw it away. I wish for other beginning quilters I still had my beginning quilt, but that was my first.
[00:05:37] You know, of course, I like creating and to me, quilting is an art and so that’s kind of my art. I’ve done a little bit of music and I’ve done a little bit of drawing and a little bit of painting and other crafts, but quilting has been an art. When I was in high school, I worked for a doctor in his laboratory. And then I graduated from high school, went off to college in Springfield, Missouri, and dropped outta college and got married. We’ll just say this right now: I’m on my fourth marriage and we’ve had ups and downs and sometime we’ll get a book written and and it’ll be interesting anyway.
[00:06:19] Spencer: I can’t wait.
[00:06:20] Susan: So when I was married to my first husband, we decided I’d stay home. So I did alterations. That was back in the seventies when you had the leisure suits with the plaid yolks. I’m sure that’s way before your time.
[00:06:34] Spencer: It’s pre my era, but I know what you’re referring to.
[00:06:37] Susan: You’ve seen pictures probably. He and I would have matching outfits. And I mean, I did a lot of self taught, but actually when I was 18, I went to work at Fines Department Store in Savannah, Georgia, and for five years did alterations and I was one of about 18 alteration girls. I was the youngest and we had all kinds of girls that taught me everything. They went all the way up to… we had an 82 year old that was doing the bridal beading. I think I’ve done a little bit of all kinds of sewing.
[00:07:11] Spencer: Yeah.
[00:07:11] Susan: But the art part of quilting is what I liked. I had my own factory in Florida for a while: small quantity garment manufacturing with a screen print component.
[00:07:23] Then I’ve been doing quilting until now and like I said, in 2008, and I also, you know, I went to school, became a nurse. But I think some of the skills you use in nursing or healthcare you’re using in quilting and it’s also as stress relief. So I think there’s a lot of quilters that are nurses or, you know, healthcare professionals. I have found that.
[00:07:49] Spencer: Some crossover there.
[00:07:50] Susan: Yeah. And so then did that answer your question? How I… passion wise, quilt wise.
[00:07:56] Spencer: It does. I think the answer to that is it’s been a lifelong passion for you, right? That you have really been around the sewing, quilting, crafting kind of space for so long that it just came natural to you to kind of open up a shop later on, you know, in that 2007, 2008 era and kind of gone from there.
[00:08:14] So I am curious as far as setting your shop apart, setting Hyderhangout, what makes your shop different than other shops? We want our listeners to be able to, to hear this and think, “oh, how do I set myself apart? How do I set my shop apart from the competitors in the area?”
[00:08:30] Susan: Well, I think the “hangout” part. You know, Hyderhangout. We encourage people to come in. I tell my employees to spend all the time you need to with a customer. There’s some places you go in, and of course the big box, you go in, you can’t find any help. We will spend up to an hour or two sometimes helping somebody find their fabric, figure out their measurements, whatever. And if in the short term, the plus and minuses, as far as time, it doesn’t equal, it still in the long term will and we make friends rather than customers. We have “Quilt Til You Wilt” one day a month. We have classes, we have clubs. So, I think if I had to put it in one short little paragraph there, that’s what sets us apart.
[00:09:17] Spencer: Sure. So it sounds like you’ve done a lot to try to build these relationships with your customers or you say friends, right. That you’ve tried to create A space where they can feel safe to come, spend time, chat, you know, explore more, right, as far as their quilting desires go.
[00:09:34] Susan: …And sewing because I have alteration skills and dress making skills and then I’ve got my sewing machine mechanic and she does dress making and alterations and she teaches the beginning sewing and teaches them how to make a vest, an apron or, something like that.
[00:09:50] Spencer: Okay.
[00:09:51] Susan: The “and more” has grown too, cuz the whole name is “Hyderhangout: Quote, Fabric, and More.”
[00:09:59] Spencer: Yeah. The “and more” has grown. I love that and I think it’s so fun cuz it adds some mystery to it, right? Like what else does Hyderhangout have for me?
[00:10:06] Okay, so kind of going along that same line, tell us a little bit about how you have marketed that, right? Like how have you told people this is a place to come, the Hyderhangout, right? You know, what are you using to get the word out there?
[00:10:18] Susan: Well, I think the most effective one is the word of mouth. Of course with the website, then I also have an Etsy store and an eBay store. One of those may go away sooner than later. Then we have a Facebook page and we also do some Facebook live. I’m teaching.
[00:10:36] For a while I had a talk show on a radio station in town here. I think it was probably up to two and a half, three years, something like that, and one thing led to another and he ended up closing his business, but he’s a DJ and been a lifelong DJ. So we’ve been teaching DJ Rick how to quilt and that’s on live on Tuesday evenings on our Facebook and so that’s one way we’ve grown it. And we encourage people to watch it live and then, you know, chime in with their comments or whatever.
[00:11:07] I’ve done some videos in the past. There was a TV station that I would go in once a week and do a quilting show.
[00:11:15] I haven’t tried mailouts but I do do coupons. So like, handout coupons at quilt shows. I’m involved in a quilt show at the quilt shop that is across the street from my shop and have been involved with that almost the whole time I’ve been open for business. So, lots of ways.
[00:11:33] Spencer: Okay. Tons of mediums, right? I mean, all kinds of ways. Obviously you know, you kind of, hit on the very first thing. Word of mouth is always gonna be one of the most effective ways, especially with a small business like yours, friends and friends of friends and cousins of friends and et cetera, and I think we all kind of know that, but maybe one of the more unexplored mediums that you refer to was TV advertising because that’s not something I think a lot of quilt shops are doing right now. So tell us, I mean, how have you seen that benefit your business?
[00:12:03] Susan: Well, it was a small, local broadcast; six counties in the area and I actually have the recordings of some of them with the link on my website. So some of those videos are able to be watched still. TV advertising in like the bigger TV stations, like one of the big ones in Chattanooga, I haven’t done that. Budget wise, I just couldn’t stretch my budget enough to feel like I could do that.
[00:12:32] Spencer: You wanted to stay more local and by doing that, you’re able to maybe keep a lower budget, right, cuz you’re staying in your local counties.
[00:12:38] Susan: Right, right. If I went to the bigger Chattanooga station, which reaches north Georgia and in North Carolina and stuff, it would be a big chunk of change and that’s probably also why I haven’t bitten off doing a billboard yet cuz those are kind of expensive too.
[00:12:54] Spencer: Sure. Totally understand that, but I think it’s fun to kind of explore the thought of TV advertising knowing that, you know, so many quilt shops are maybe not taking advantage of that.
[00:13:04] All right. So, Susan, I think we’re gonna shift gears here a little bit from the advertising and marketing of your store to more of the general being a quilt retailer and some of the challenges that come with that. So, what would you say, from your experience in the last 10, 15 years, what’s one of the most difficult parts of being a quilt retailer. What kind of challenges are you guys facing?
[00:13:27] Susan: Okay. One of the biggest things I tell anybody that comes is… they’ll say “oh, it must be great to be paid to quilt.” Well, you get paid to quilt, but you get paid to quilt for other people. You can’t always do your own. You also, if you open a quilt shop, you are not opening a place to quilt and have fun. You are becoming a business owner.
[00:13:52] And I’ve seen lots of people who opened a quilt shop and within 5, 10 years closed it. Within a hundred miles of me, there’s probably 20 that I know of just thinking off the top of my head.
[00:14:08] Some of those closings is COVID closed ’em, but some of them, it was just the fact that they could never jump over to the idea that I’m a business owner first, a quilter second, which is anybody, any small business, and you know, the people open an embroidery, shop, a painting, shop a garden shop, and they have to, if they’re gonna be successful jump over from, “Hey, it’s a hobby” to, “Hey, it’s a business” and business decisions are different than what you would make if it was just a hobby.
[00:14:43] Spencer: That is such an important part of being a business owner, especially in the quilt and sewing space. It is sometimes really hard to separate that, especially when it is such a hobby and you view it as, in some ways, a hobby and you have to step outside of that and say, okay, yes, I love to quilt, but also, you know, this is a business and I need to make those decisions. You know, that are best for the business and not best for kind of fueling my hobby, right? To your point, you’re not being paid to quilt for yourself. You’re being paid to quilt for other people. There’s so many other aspects that come with owning a business, right? Taking care of your employees, managing your employees, inventory and accounting and I mean, as a small business owner, literally everything in a business is on your mind. And so it’s not like you could just show up to work and, you know, quilt and leave.
[00:15:34] Susan: Right, right.
[00:15:35] Spencer: You have so much more on your mind and so I totally understand that is being one of the biggest challenges that you’re gonna face.
[00:15:42] Susan: If you can’t multitask, forget being a business owner. And you have to be flexible. I think the other thing that I have learned trying to think about, well, there’s certain ways to do things, but there’s probably a better way in listening to everybody you could possibly listen to in the industry, in other quilt shops, in customers, employees, spouses, all of that. You have to listen to everybody else and take all the ideas, but the buck stops here. I mean, you know, if I don’t do what I need to do, and if I don’t put my foot down and say, no, we can’t do that because… and most of the time, you know, if I listen to other people’s ideas and they say, “well, you should do this, this and this and this.”
[00:16:27] And I say, “you know, that’s a good idea. However, let’s melt this together here. You’re part of the idea of a way to put it on the shelf is great. Let’s change it.” So you have to be very, very flexible and open to everybody else’s ideas.
[00:16:45] Spencer: Yeah, I love that. And I think that’s a big reason why we’re doing this podcast is for other quilt shop owners to be able to listen, and we’re gonna have other owners on the podcast, is to be able to hear from you guys and hear what’s working and what are you struggling with? Because ultimately hearing from other people and learning from their experiences, their failures and their successes is gonna help us grow the most, I think, as, as quilt shop owners.
[00:17:08] Okay. So kind of moving forward here and something that’s really interesting for me is you got kind of started in maybe selling quilt and fabric in really kind of the boom of dot com and eCommerce, right? You know, 2007, eBay’s getting really big. And you know, Etsy kind of continues, you know, years down the road from that, you know, eCommerce. We’ve seen a lot of change in customer behavior in all industries, right? Quilt is not an exception to this. But then we saw, again, a big change in customer behavior when COVID happened.
[00:17:41] Susan: Oh my goodness!
[00:17:42] Spencer: 2020 was a weird year for all of us. No matter what industry you were in, you know, kind of, regardless of that, it touched everyone. So tell me a little bit about how your customer’s behavior, or I guess you prefer to friends, right? Your friends’ behavior: how did that change in the last couple of years?
[00:17:58] Susan: Right. At first… see my husband is self-employed too and he’s got some eCommerce and then he does recycling and he started out recycling electronics, but he’s got actually an Etsy store that has “art supplies” on it, so I went home when they said, oh, we’re gonna close all the shops.
[00:18:18] Of course, everybody’s going, oh no, I’m gonna die. You know, you say, oh no, my shop’s gonna die. How am I gonna pay rent if I have to be closed? And you know, so we went home and we talked and he said, well, hopefully the online sales will be great. And then we looked and we thought, oh, curbside. So, two days later, I look at my online sales and they skyrocketed, like skyrocketed! I mean, I went from, you know, a few a day to 20 to 50 a day.
[00:18:55] Spencer: Oh my goodness gracious!
[00:18:57] Susan: I had to bring my husband in cuz, you know, he knows how to package things. So he was packaging four hours a day and then I have my best friend that was making masks and so I don’t remember how many a day she was making, but lots because people were coming. I actually had to turn away one order for 500 masks and then another one, this company said, “well, we’re just gonna make three of the people that know how to sew make masks. Can you get us some kits?” And I was able to procure elastic during that time, because I wasn’t doing the things like the big boxes were saying we need 20,000 yards at one order, I was doing, you know, a couple rolls at a time
[00:19:42] Susan: And the curbside. So, at first it was a little difficult because everybody was just showing up and I was like, no, we can’t do that and I was getting enough curbside orders that I was doing every 30 minute curbside orders from most days from nine in the morning to six at night. And you couldn’t come before your 30 minutes because between the last 30 minutes and the next one, I was putting the orders together and getting them ready for you to come.
[00:20:11] Sometimes I’d have a few ahead. And that I really loved when Like Sew put that where you could go online and say, “In-store pickup.” When you guys changed that I was like, yes! And you guys seem to do that, where you listen to the rumbles on the ground and do something proactively. And so, April of 2020, my husband and I had one Sunday off and then in May we had two Sundays off and I don’t remember how many days a week my girl was making masks and coming in and helping get the orders. And then my sewing machine mechanic was… people were getting sewing machines out of the closet and so she was inundated that first year with sewing machine repairs and maintenance.
[00:21:02] Spencer: Yeah. Listening to you, what I’m hearing is you needed to adapt, right? At the bottom line, you had to adapt to what your customers wanted and you did, and you found huge success in it and I think that speaks to, you know… really successful business owners adapt when they see a change in the market, a change in behavior or, you know, heaven forbid something as drastic as the pandemic, you see an adaption and that’s what you did, right? The curbside pickup, it blew up because that’s what people needed and that’s what people wanted. And being able to provide that for them is ultimately, I think, such a good sign of successful business owning, especially at kind of a small business level, cuz you know, we talk about big box stores and not being able to adapt as quickly as small business owners are, right? Like, you are the decision maker. You didn’t have to send it to a board for approval and you know, get the shareholders approval and all this kind of stuff. Like, it was you. You get to say, “yeah, this is what we’re gonna have to change,” and your customers responded, it seems like from what I’m hearing, really positively to that.
[00:22:07] Susan: Yeah. I know a few quilt shops that just closed. “I don’t wanna do curbside pickup and I don’t wanna do that and I don’t wanna do online.” So they just… They either retired early or closed for an extended period of time. You have to decide if you wanna work that hard and it is hard work when you have to adapt.
[00:22:26] And right now we’ve been going through a little downturn, big downturn. I don’t know what. April and May were a lot slower than previous years. I haven’t compared to way back years ago. And June is still being a little slow. We aren’t having as many travelers as we normally do and we know that’s because gas is high, but in the last week we’ve seen another small upturn on the purchasing online. So you have to be able to be quick and adapt.
[00:22:58] Spencer: Yeah. Well, let’s explore that a little bit and talk about it. You know, we’re in June of 2022, right, is when we’re recording this podcast. So let’s kind of explore that pattern of behavior you know, as we see, people are really wanting to get outside now, right. People are wanting to get out and do more because they’ve maybe felt like they weren’t able to in the last couple of years.
[00:23:16] Susan: Well, no classes, nobody coming in. And we did do a block of the month this year and we ended up with 28 people on it. Of course we can’t fit all of them all at once in the classroom. But we have more people coming to things and events. There’s gonna be a shop hop. We did have a shop hop last July, and we’re gonna have one this July. We’re hoping for more people, not less, but who knows? We’re hearing more people talking about carpooling rather than just going on the shop hop by themselves. So they may be adapting as far as, “well, let’s save gas by going together.”
[00:23:52] But there are a little bit less travelers than I’ve noticed in the past. Last summer, there were a little bit more travelers, of course there were hardly any in 2020. This was completely different 2020.
[00:24:06] 2021, you had a little bit more travelers and all this year travelers have been more, there’s an upswing on that. We hope it continues. We just don’t know what gas getting higher and higher is gonna do. I mean, sometimes you have to just get groceries and gas and as my husband says, what’s been happening in the last two weeks is these people have been letting FedEx and USPS and UPS pay their gas instead of them coming in. So, that’s kind of what’s going on.
[00:24:38] Spencer: Yeah, I think that totally makes sense and I think you know, you touched on some more really talking about the adaption piece of things is, I think people want to get out and do things and they also want to be with people. And you kind of spoke to that, right?
[00:24:53] You were talking about your classes in the block of the month, the shop hops, right? You’re gonna do that with friends and that’s a big priority. People want to get out and do things and they want to be with their friends and be with their family and that’s one way that it sounds like you guys are really adapting to that is that maybe we don’t have as many individual quilters saying, “okay, I’m gonna go to this store today by myself, buy, you know, some jelly rolls and a piece of fabric, you know, and go back to my house and I’m gonna do my own quilt.” Instead. I’m going to use quilting as a social event to be able to be with my friends and be with my family and I think classes are maybe one of the best ways to fuel that. Is that kinda what you’re seeing in your market?
[00:25:35] Susan: Yeah, that and our events. We do have once a month (for a while we did not have it) the “Quilt Til You Wilt” event. Bring in potluck food and come and hang out and some people come in and they just visit the whole time.
[00:25:51] Spencer: Yeah. Yeah, and that’s totally okay.
[00:25:53] Susan: And we actually have had more people that are doing other things than quilting coming into the Quilt Til You Wilt: crochet or embroidery, And it’s just sitting and visiting. So that’s been kind of cool.
[00:26:05] Spencer: I love that. Okay. So Susan, we’re kind of coming up on our time here. I think parting thoughts, what I wanna hear from you is, if I’m a quilt shop owner, and maybe a new quilt shop owner or I’m, you know, struggling in my quilt shop, give us a piece of advice. You would say the one thing that they really need to do in their business to take it to the next level.
[00:26:25] Susan: Okay. One thing. Oh boy.
[00:26:28] Spencer: I know there’s so many because we’ve tried to explore that over this podcast is all the different things that you’ve done to adapt to a changing market.
[00:26:35] Susan: Using all the information that’s out there and the big community that’s out there to get ideas and not becoming so competitive with viewing the quilt shop down the street or in the next county over as your competition. There are quilt shops that won’t talk to me and that’s not my choice, but there are quilt shop owners that think, “well, I’m in competition with everybody in the world” and you have to get your niche, your own niche, because you can’t compete with everybody in the world.
[00:27:14] I can’t compete with some of the online sellers on Etsy because they don’t have the overhead I have. So I just put my stuff on there at a reasonable price. And, you know, I do look and see what the market is bearing, but we pride ourselves with our relationships.
[00:27:33] You have to be open to all the ideas that are out there and making friendships with other quilt shop owners and vendors and suppliers and you know, your fabric reps and whoever else you can, other business owners that are not even in your industry. I’ve learned a tremendous part… I’m in the Chamber of Commerce and then I’m in Main Street Cleveland and I’m also in a power lunch group and I listen to their struggles and what they do and apply it to my shop in its own way.
[00:28:08] Spencer: I love that. I think from what I’m hearing from you is use your community and be a part of your community to build that niche right? In your case, the Hyderhangout is to let people know this is a hangout, right? This is a place to come and enjoy time with your friends and with us.
[00:28:27] And so I just wanna say, huge thank you, Susan. Thank you for being on the podcast.
[00:28:30] Susan: All right.
[00:28:32] Spencer: Again from Cleveland, Tennessee, right? Not Cleveland, Ohio?
[00:28:35] Susan: Well, there’s also a Cleveland, Georgia. There’s probably a Cleveland in almost every state.
[00:28:38] Spencer: Well, there you go. This one’s Cleveland, Tennessee and it has been just an absolute pleasure to be able to chat with you today. Thank you so much for your time.
[00:28:45] Susan: All right. You’re welcome. Anytime.